Subject: PALESTINE/ISRAEL, ONE STATE SOLUTION IS THE ONLY SOLUTION
"...IT WOULD BE IN ISRAEL'S BEST INTERST TO NO LONGER HOLD ON TO THE IDEA OF AN EXCLUSIVE JEWISH STATE. THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THAT PALESTINE/ISRAEL BE SHARED AS A SECULAR DEMOCRATIC STATE. ISAEL SHOULD DO THIS WHILE IT IS STILL STRONG. ONE DAY IT WILL NOT BE SO STRONG, AND ONLY GOD KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN THEN. BECAUSE THE PALESTININAS WILL NOT-WILL NOT-WILL NOT-FORGETTE ABOUT PALESTINE..."
Jun 4 1997, 3:00 am
Subject: Re: ISRAEL AND PALESTINE
Great idea. I agree we must have a final solution. However, I think a better soluion would be for both the Palestininas and Israelis to live together in a democratic secular state. I think this is the only soluton that will work. The two state solution will only delay war for another day and another time. I don't think the Plaestininas will ever forgive the Jews for steeling their homes, Killing their men and raping their women. At the least If original Palestine is shared, the Palestininas will have the theoratical posibility of living anywhere from Jerusalem to Telavive. This plan is the best plan outside of returning Israel to its true owners which is the Palestininas
See complete text below:
Free Muslim to Address Israeli & Palestinian Leaders in Israel & Palestine
Several months ago, the Free Muslims Coalition produced a policy paper on the Palestinian/Israeli Conflict in which the Free Muslims called for a confederation between Palestine and Israel that resembles the European Union. Since that time, the policy paper has circulated in the World Wide Web and garnered substantial interest from some Israelis, Palestinians and Americans.
Recently, Kamal Nawash of the Free Muslims was invited to Israel, Palestine and Jordan to present the policy paper before audiences that includes Israeli members of parliament, newly elected members of the Palestinian parliament and Jordanian officials.
We have reproduced the policy paper below. Please read it and share your comments on our Free Speech Zone (blog). Your opinions will be summarized and shared with audiences in the Middle East to illustrate the reaction to our proposed solution. You can share you view by visiting: http://www.freemuslims.org/blog/index.php?id=225#comments
MIM:Prior to the much hyped Million Muslim (Invisible) March Against Terrorism Nawash proudly told a WPost reporter that :
'Some people see me as the Muslim Martin Luther". Indeed, Nawash's postings on a Google Internet forum about Israel "being the only terrorist state in the Middle East" echo Luther's hatred of the Jews.
"...The Palestininans are definitly not convinced. They will never forgett about Palestine. Even us Americans are begining to wake up and see the truth. The only terrorist in the Middle-East is the state of Israel..." Kamal Nawash 6/1/97
From: kamal nawash <kn92...@american.edu
Subject: Re: Somebody in Egypt
FlorentHi, my name is Kamal I am from Palestine but reside in the US. I am a
law student, who are you.
Jun 1 1997, 3:00 am
From: kn92...@american.edu -
Subject: Re: NAZI=MUSLEM
In article <19970524165000.MAA04...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, dmaye...@aol.com (Dmayer76) wrote:
> i have come to the conclusion that nazis and muslems are one and the same > the nazis call it lebensraum > muslems call it jihad........its all the same thing > the nazis want to kill all the jews of the world > the muslems want to kill all israelis....and any jew that supports the > existence of israel...which is all jews > nazi is the same as muslem........you are both guided by > evil...hatred....bigotry...arrogance......and jealousy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- REPLY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is really discouriging to read false propaganda like yours when so many paople are sincerely working hard to find a just solution to the Palestinin/Israeli conflict. People like you who have nothing to do but defame Islam and spread other false information are useless and should drop out of futur discussions.
Your problem is not with Islam. it is with the Palestininas who are made up of
Christians and Moslems. If the Christian and Moslem Palestinians are angry it is not because they hate Jews, it is because Jews stole their land, killed their men and raped their women. By defaming Islam and comparing it with Nazisim you are avoiding the true issue that Palestine was stolen by the Jews. Palestine includes all the land that is known as Israel today. Your attempt to confuse the issues is not convincing and will not work. The Palestininans are definitly not convinced. They will never forgett about Palestine. Even us Americans are begining to wake up and see the truth. The only terrorist in the Middle-East is the state of Israel. Rather than spread false info., you could come up with solutions such as the one state solution where both Palestininas and jews can live together in a secular democratic state.
In article <19970523211800.RAA23...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, dmaye...@aol.com (Dmayer76) wrote:
> if during a war with its arab neighbors......israel believes that its > existence is under serious threat....israel will send an ultimatum to its > enemies....."if you destroy our state...if you destroy 200 years of > work...our last act as a soveriegn nation will be to nuke every arab > capital.......iran........all of palestine.....and jerusalem.".........how > about that smarty????????? > israel cannot be destroyed by any arab or muslem army........to destroy > israel wiuld be suicide.........ever muslim capital would be > liquidated....and the 1,000 year histrory of the arab world would be > over.........so go ahead...try to erase israel............if israel > goes........it will take 100,000,000 muslems with it......=)
Israel will not live forever. Israel is a criminal nation with an artificial cultur, nation and history. No nation who is based on lies has suceeded for a long period of time. Check your history books. Consider the Soviet Union. The Whole nation was built on a lie and finally crumbeled like Israel will one day. No criminal, no matter how strong evaded justice forever. Consider Al Capone and Adolf Hittler. Those men were once powerful figures. However, their power was based on unjust means and therefor, finnaly crumbeled. The same will happen to Israel. Justice always wins in the end and one day Israel will once again be called Palestine.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
Jun 1 1997, 3:00 am
Subject: PALESTINE/ISRAEL, ONE STATE SOLUTION IS THE ONLY SOLUTION
I WILL START THIS DISCUSSION BY POSING THE QUESTION OF WHY WOULD THE PALESTINIANS, AFTER 40 YEARS OF TRYING TO LIBERATE THEIR COUNTYRY, FINALLY ACCEPT 25% OR LESS OF ORIGINAL PALESTINE (WESTBANK AND GAZA), WHEN THEY WERE NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT 47%, JUST 40 YEARS AGO. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT ALL THE PALESTINIANS WHO WERE KICKED OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND FORCED TO LIVE IN REFUGEE CAMPS ARE FINALLY WILLING TO FORGIVE AND FORGET THE ISRAELIS FOR "STEALIN" THEIR HOMES AND COUNTRY? WHAT ABOUT THE ISRAELIS? FOR YEARS THEY SAID THEY WILL NOT RETURN ONE INCH OF PALESTINE TO THE PALESTININAS. WHAT HAPPENED TO CHANGE ISRAELI OPINION, IF IT HAS CHANGED? FOR THE PALESTINIANS THEY COMPROMISED BECAUSE THEY FELT THEY CAN NO LONGER BEAR THE SUFFERING OF OCCUPATION BY ISRAEL AND BECAUSE THE ARAB WORLD, DIVIDED BY THE GULF WAR, WAS TOO WEAK TO HELP THEM. FOR ISRAEL, THEY WANTED TO END THE INTIFADA AND BY LIBERATING THE PALESTINIANS IT STOOD TO REAP SUBSTANTIAL ECONOMIC BENEFITS. IF THE PEACE PROCESS IS BASED ON ARAB WEAKNESS, THEN ISRAEL MUST ALWAYS REMAIN STRONG AND THE ARABS MUST REMAIN WEAK IF ISREAL IS TO SURVIVE. WHILE ISRAEL HAS EVERY INTENTION OF DOING SO, THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN. NO COUNTRY, EMPIRE OR ANY SOVEREIGN ENTITY HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO MAINMTAIN THEIR SUPERIORITY FOREVER. FOR EXAMPLE, CONSIDER THE UNITED KINGDOM, IT WAS NOT SO LONG AGO THAT IT WAS SAID THAT "THE SUN NEVER SETS ON THE BRITISH EMPIRE." TODAY, NOT ONLY DID THE SUN SET, BUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF BRITIAN IS DECREASING BY THE HOUR. AND WHAT ABOUT THE SOVIET UNION, CONSIDER THE SPEED OF ITS DEMISE. AS TO THE ARAB WORLD, THE ARAB MENTALITY BEGAN TO CHANGE AFTER THE GULF WAR. IT WAS SOME WHAT OF A RENISSANCE. TODAY, MOST ARAB COUNTRIES ARE DEVELOPING ECONOMICALLY AND INDUSTRILTY AT A VERY FAST RATE. EXAMPLES, TUNISIA'S ECONOMY IS THE FASTEST GROWING IN ALL THE REGION. EGYPT IS THE SECOND. IN FACT EGYPT IS DOING SO WELL THAT BOTH MERCEDEZ AND BMW ARE PLANING ON BUILDING FACTORIES IN THAT COUNTRY. SAUDI ARABIA HAS MADE PHENOMINAL PROGRESS SINCE THE GULF WAR. IT IS BUILDING A NEW FACTORY ALMOST EVERY MONTH. SINCE 1995 THEY HAVE CREATED 263,000 JOBS. THE ABOVE THREE COUNTRIES ARE JUST EXAMPLES. MOST OTHER ARAB COUNTRIES ARE DEVELOPING AT A FAST RATE. EVEN IRAQ HAS MADE INCREDIBLE IMPROVEMENTS DESPITE THE SANCTIONS. IRAQ IS NOW PRODUCING MOST OF ITS OWN CONSUMER GOODS. FURTHER, SINCE 1995, THEY BEGAN PRODUCING ALL THE SPARE PARTS FOR THIR CIVIL AND MILITARY AVIATION. ISRAEL CAN'T EVEN DO THIS. BASED ON THE ABOVE REASONING, IT WOULD BE IN ISRAEL'S BEST INTERST TO NO LONGER HOLD ON TO THE IDEA OF AN EXCLUSIVE JEWISH STATE. THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THAT PALESTINE/ISRAEL BE SHARED AS A SECULAR DEMOCRATIC STATE. ISAEL SHOULD DO THIS WHILE IT IS STILL STRONG. ONE DAY IT WILL NOT BE SO STRONG, AND ONLY GOD KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN THEN. BECAUSE THE PALESTININAS WILL NOT-WILL NOT-WILL NOT-FORGETTE ABOUT PALESTINE.
Jun 4 1997, 3:00 am
Subject: Re: ISRAEL AND PALESTINE
In article <19970526170600.NAA26...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, dmaye...@aol.com (
> here is a nice easy solution to the whole damn mess......two states > the border between israel and palestine will be permenantly > demilitarized...so that future aggression will never occur.....anyone who > doesnt accept that is an asshole and wants nuclear holocaust.........it is > obvious that there can never be just israel..and their can never be just > palestine.....we live in a different world......and diplomacy and > democracy rules the day........if anyone cant accept that.....fuck > you.......i suggest you buy a gun and shoot your self in the foot...and > then in the head
-=------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Reply --------------------------------------------------------------------- Great idea. I agree we must have a final solution. However, I think a better soluion would be for both the Palestininas and Israelis to live together in a democratic secular state. I think this is the only soluton that will work. The two state solution will only delay war for another day and another time. I don't think the Plaestininas will ever forgive the Jews for steeling their homes, Killing their men and raping their women. At the least If original Palestine is shared, the Palestininas will have the theoratical posibility of living anywhere from Jerusalem to Telavive. This plan is the best plan outside of returning Israel to its true owners which is the Palestininas.
No issue has the same global impact as the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. During the cold war, the United States and the Soviet Union twice raised their security alerts and aggressively challenged each other over this conflict. The oil embargo of the 1970s was inspired by the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Numerous militants, terrorist groups and governments around the world which seek legitimacy place the Palestinian/Israeli conflict at the forefront of their agenda. And while the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is not the cause of terrorism, solving this conflict may transform the political landscape of the entire Middle East and expose the various agendas of numerous violent groups who leach on this conflict to win the hearts and minds of emotional and unsuspecting people.
Because of the global impact of this conflict, the entire world must do all it can to bring peace between the Palestinians and Israelis. Towards that end the Free Muslims propose the following:
Today there are three solutions to this conflict. The Israelis and Palestinians can kill each other; they can separate by creating two separate nations; or they can create one nation made up of two people. Presently, the only solution being discussed is a two state solution. This solution is based on separating both people into two separate and sovereign nations. While the Free Muslims support any solution that brings final peace to both Israelis and Palestinians, we believe there are serious problems with the two state solution that may not bring long term peace to both people.
During the Clinton administration, the Palestinians and Israelis spent nearly ten years trying to hammer out a deal based on the two state solution. That peace process ended in total failure. Immediately after the failure of that peace process, Israelis and Palestinians blamed each other for the failure; and the rest of the world took side with either the Palestinians or the Israelis.
However, neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are to blame for the failure of the Clinton era peace talks which were based on the "Oslo agreement." What caused the failure of the peace talks maybe the solution it self rather than the parties. The consequences of creating two separate nations by dividing Israel and Palestine were and still are difficult pills to swallow for both Israelis and Palestinians. It is a fact that both Israelis and Palestinians have religious, historical and emotional attachments to every square inch of the land that includes Israel and Palestine. The sooner the Palestinians and Israelis understand this reality the sooner they can solve their conflict.
From the point of view of many Israelis, the two state solution is difficult because they would have to give up their religious and historical attachments to the West Bank and Gaza which they call Judea and Samaria. Many Israelis simply cannot fathom giving up the West Bank and Gaza and maybe they should not have to. From the point of view of the Palestinians, the two states solution is difficult because they have historical, religious and emotional attachments not only to the West Bank and Gaza but also to Israel which they call the lands of 1948 after the year they lost it to present day Israel. These are the facts and realities that the Palestinians and Israelis have to deal with to solve their conflict.
In light of these facts some may think that a solution to this conflict is impossible. Not true. The Palestinian/Israeli conflict can be solved like any other conflict as long as the parties think outside the box and as long as no one uses violence or terrorism to effect political change.
In light of the attachments that both parties have for the same territory, the solution is not in separating but in coming closer together. Many Israelis and Palestinians seem to agree that the land they call Israel/Palestine is indivisible. Thus, the solution lies in keeping the land that Israelis and Palestinians call home as one nation while at the same time providing each side with the security and the individuality the parties would have if they had their own separate nations.
What is being proposed here is a Two State-One Nation solution based on equality, freedom and civil rights for both Israelis and Palestinians. The idea behind this solution is that there will be two sovereign states similar to New York and New Jersey that together make one nation similar to the United States of America. However, rather than being a federation it would be a confederation. The main difference between a federation and a confederation is that the states in a confederacy have much more sovereignty than in a federation.
What is being proposed here is not entirely new. What is new about the two state-one nation solution is that it achieves the benefits of being one united nation while reserving for both Israelis and Palestinians the security and independence of being two separate nations.
To illustrate this point further, note that after occupying the West Bank and Gaza in 1967, Israel could have annexed and integrated those territories into Israel by providing the Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. However, Israel did not do this and instead chose to treat the West Bank and Gaza as if they were part of Israel physically without providing the Palestinians in those territories with citizenship, political rights or civilian rule. Among the reasons Israel did not integrate the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza into Israel is because Israelis were afraid of a demographic problem. The Israelis feared that if they gave the Palestinians equality, political and civil rights that the Palestinians may one day out number the Israelis and vote Israel out of existence. While we understand this concern by Israelis, those Israelis who fear giving the Palestinians equality and civil rights assume that they cannot give the Palestinians equality and at the same time have a Jewish state. This is a false assumption. The territory that includes Israel and Palestine can be one nation where the Palestinians have equality, political and civil rights and at the same time be a safe heaven for Jews from all over the world.
This can be done by creating a confederation of two states united by a federal type government with limited powers. The country can be called the United States of Israel and Palestine. While both states should have the right to limit immigration and migration within their borders, the principles of the nation should be based on the free movement of labor and people. To the extent that Israelis move to Palestine and Palestinians to Israel, we can avoid the demographic consequences of the migration by having their votes count in their respective state regardless of where they live. This approach will totally avoid the demographic fear that Israelis have by making certain that migration of people does not dilute the political power of Jews or Palestinians in their local and state politics.
As to the national government, Israel and Palestine shall each contribute 50% to the national parliament regardless of their populations. With this solution, the Israelis do not have to fear political dilution from potential demographic changes and the Palestinians do not have to fear political dilution from the Israelis.
As to the President or Prime Minister of the national government of the United States of Israel and Palestine, they should be elected by the national parliament. Being that the parliament is divided 50/50 no Palestinian or Israeli can win without support from parliamentarians of the other side. This will guarantee that no Palestinian or Israeli extremist can become president of the United States of Israel and Palestine.
Initially, the national government should have limited powers similar to the United States government in the early days of the Union. As time progresses and both Israelis and Palestinians feel more comfortable with each other, they may chose to give the confederation more authority. In essence the early days of the national government of the United States of Israel and Palestine should resemble an entity more like the European Union than the U.S. federal government.
On economic matters, Israel and Palestine shall act as one nation with no exception. They shall have the same currency, no tariffs and complete free trade. The early days of the national government or confederation shall be to bring jobs and economic prosperity to both Israelis and Palestinians. This should be an easy task. A peaceful Israel and Palestine acting as one nation would be a gold mine the likes of which the world has never seen. A nation that is the birth place of western civilization and immensely revered by Jews, Christians and Muslims, religious tourism alone will guarantee a healthy economy in perpetuity.
However, the economy will have more than tourism to secure its prosperity. A nation of Palestinians and Israelis at peace with their neighbors shall have unlimited opportunities. The technical know-how of Israel, the available capital in the Arab world and a geography that is at the intersection of three continents can produce an economic power house that is second to none on a per capita basis. Moreover, a peaceful nation made up of Palestine and Israel at peace with their neighbors will not only bring economic prosperity to that nation but also to the entire Middle East.
This solution may not be perfect. However, this proposed solution may be the only solution that will give the Palestinians and Israelis most of what they want while at the same time allows both people to keep their individual identity and live as one nation. Moreover, with this solution, Jerusalem becomes a non-issue and borders become less relevant. This solution will basically take Israelis and Palestinians back to the time before the first intifada (uprising) began in 1987 with the only difference being that the Palestinians will have rights and equality that they never had under the occupation. As proof that this solution can work is the fact that Israel has one million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship and they are not demonstrating, throwing rocks or blowing themselves up. Why is this? The only difference between Palestinians who are citizens of Israel and Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza is that one group has freedom, political and civil rights while the other has nothing. Israel did not recognize the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza as citizens. They were put under military rule, and they were segregated in everyway.
To summarize, the Free Muslims are asking the Palestinians to reach out to their Israeli and Jewish partners and say the following:
"We understand why the state of Israel is important to you. We are fully aware of the persecution that Jews suffered throughout history and the necessity of having a safe heaven for Jews. We also understand that Jews have historical and religious ties to Israel/Palestine. We believe that every Jew shall have the right to move to Israel and become a citizen immediately. We also welcome Jews to visit and to reside in the West Bank and Gaza. We want the Palestinians and Israelis to live together as neighbors, friends and countrymen. In return, what we want is freedom, liberty and equality for the Palestinians. Will you meet us half way?"
The Free Muslims are also asking Israelis and Jews to reach out to their Palestinians Partners and say the following:
"We understand why Palestine is important to you. We are fully aware of the suffering the Palestinians have experience over the last 100 years and the necessity of having a safe heaven for Palestinians. We also understand that Palestinians have historical and religious ties to Israel/Palestine. We believe that every Palestinian shall have the right to move to Palestine and become a citizen immediately. We also welcome the Palestinians to visit and to reside in Israel. We want the Palestinians and Israelis to live together as neighbors, friends and countrymen. In return, what we want is permanent security, liberty, equality and the total freedom to be Jews. Will you meet us half way?"