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Hollandistan Follies : Dutch University to offer tax payer financed Imam course : "Because ... many Imams don't have much of a feeling for Dutch society "

Foreign born Imams can earn a free University degree while studying shar'ia with radical Imams in Holland and abroad
February 1, 2005

MIM :Now that Dutch taxpayers are paying for courses to teach Morroccan Muslim youth how to pick up woman without harrassing and molesting them, the Dutch goverment has come up with another brillant plan to teach their Muslims how to love and respect them. A course at one of Hollands main universities in Amsterdam was set up "because many of the Imams at present don't have much of a feeling for Dutch society".

The fact that Theo van Gogh's killer, Mohammed Bouyeri, was a Muslim born in Holland who had been educated in some of the best Dutch schools, could have contributed to this perverse idea.

Perhaps if Bouyeri had had the chance to follow a Dutch government sponsored Imam course, like the one being offered at the Free University, he would have become a spiritual leader of a Dutch goverment funded mosque instead.

(Unless of course, he had graduated summa cum laude from the' pick up' course for Morrocan Muslim youth first).

The Dutch Imam course will backfire miserably and act as a recruiting ground for Dutch converts at the Free University in addition to providing Islamists with access to university facilities and funding which can be exploited for Da'wa and even terrorist purposes. In addition, it will help Islamists to better manipulate the Dutch system and find more ways of undermining it and exploiting laws and educational institutions to acheive the ultimate goal of Islam, turning Holland into Hollandistan.

State Secretary Rutte should be shown a long list the list of US educated radical Islamists who used and continue to abuse their positions at universities in the United States to spread radical Islam and convert students on campus, and the ones who took their advanced degrees and technical expertise back to their home countries, as did for example, Ramadan Shallah, to wage Jihad against the West.

One need only go to the Campus Watch website to see the Jihadist propaganda being spewed by professors with dubious academic credentials in Middle East Studies departments in the United States.

The Dutch university course for Imams, based on the absurd premise that the Muslims failure to find a 'modus vivendi' between the European mentality and Islam is "because Imams do not have much feeling for Dutch society" ignores the fact that the Imams have no wish to take part in or understand anything about the 'infidel' Dutch way of life. For the Dutch to regard it as their problem which has to be solved by giving Muslims tax payer funded university education is an example of abject dhimmitude.

This latest example of multi culti run amok points to the urgent need for the Ministry of Education to launch an obligatory course for Dutch governmental, and policy making officials called : What part of Jihad and 'Kill all the Unbelievers' didn't you understand ?


The Free University is getting an Imam - course

Translated by Beila Rabinowitz director MIM

The Free University in Holland (VU), is getting 1.5 million euro from the Ministry of Education to provide a course for Imams. According to the goverment such a course is necessary, because many of the Imams at present do not have much of a feeling for Dutch society.

Dean and Professor Dr. M.Brinkman, of the Theological Faculty at the VU, confimed on Tuesday that the University will be getting the course. The VU hopes to begin with this on September 1st and sees it as an extension of the existing course for chaplains such as those in hospitals.

The Ministry of Education intended the money to be used as a beginning subsidy for the coming six years.The University of Groningen and and the Humanist University are not getting any subsidies, according to a spokesman , because the secretary of state Rutte did not find their course plans qualititatively satisfactory. 'Leiden University had a good plan , but it did not mesh with Cabinet policy. Leiden had focused their plan on Turkish students outside of Holland,' a spokesman explained.

Several weeks ago Rutte called for the university to submit plans to develop a scientific Islamic curriculum. The VU has experience with Islamic education and contacts in the Muslim world and has, according to Rutte, submitted a feasible plan, said a spokesman from the department.

In addition to a scientific Imam course of study, the Ministry of Integration and Immigrant affairs is going to launch a second subsidy, according to the Ministry. Educational institutions besides universities, such as Muslim organisations, can take advantage of this as well.


Vrije Universiteit krijgt imam-opleiding


AMSTERDAM - De Vrije Universiteit (VU) in Amsterdam krijgt 1,5 miljoen euro van het ministerie van Onderwijs voor een opleiding voor imams. Zo'n Nederlandse opleiding is volgens de overheid nodig, omdat veel van de huidige imams niet zoveel voeling hebben met de Nederlandse samenleving.

Decaan prof. dr. M. Brinkman van de Theologische Faculteit van de VU bevestigde dinsdag dat zijn universiteit de opleiding krijgt. De VU hoopt er op 1 september mee te beginnen en ziet die als een uitbreiding van de bestaande opleiding voor geestelijk verzorgers in instellingen zoals ziekenhuizen.

Onderwijs bedoelt het geld als een startsubsidie voor de komende zes jaar. De universiteit van Groningen en de universiteit voor Humanistiek krijgen volgens een woordvoerder van het departement geen subsidie, omdat staatssecretaris Rutte de plannen van deze universiteiten kwalitatief niet voldoende vond. 'De Universiteit van Leiden had wel een goed plan, alleen sluit het niet aan bij het kabinetsbeleid. Leiden richt zich in haar plan op Turkse studenten van buiten Nederland', liet de woordvoerder weten.

Rutte riep een aantal weken geleden de universiteiten op plannen in te dienen om wetenschappelijke islamitische opleidingen te ontwikkelen. 'De VU heeft veel ervaring met islam-onderwijs en goede contacten met de moslimwereld en heeft volgens Rutte een degelijk plan ingediend', aldus de zegsman van het departement.

Naast een wetenschappelijke islamopleiding gaat, in samenwerking met het ministerie van Vreemdelingenzaken en Integratie, binnenkort een tweede subsidieregeling lopen, aldus het ministerie. Ook andere onderwijsinstellingen dan universiteiten en andere organisaties, zoals moslimorganisaties, kunnen meedingen.


Muslim anger at Dutch imam plan

By Geraldine Coughlan
BBC News, The Hague

A Muslim group in the Netherlands has complained it was not consulted before the government backed university plans to start training imams.

There has been fierce debate about the integration of Muslims in the Netherlands in the last few years.

It intensified last November with the murder of the film-maker Theo van Gogh by a suspected Muslim extremist.

The Free University in Amsterdam says its training is to promote integration of Muslims into Dutch society.

But the Liaison Group, Muslims and Government object that it was not asked first for its own proposals for a training course.

The group plans to hold a conference on the matter later this month.

Temporary work

Most of the imams working in the Netherlands are recruited from Turkey and Morocco by mosques here to work temporarily.

The government feels this sets a bad example for the Muslim community because the clerics are not integrated into Dutch society.

The Free University's Master's degree in Islamic spiritual guidance starts this year with a 1.5m euro (£1.05m) government subsidy.

It will cover Christianity and Dutch culture, as well as Islam.


MIM: The idea of a 'Dutch Imam course' is nothing new. The Islamic University of Rotterdam vaguely outlined such a course on their website, perhaps under pressure from Dutch authorities in the wake of 9/11. The rambling article which appears to be pretending to agree to the need for Imams to understand the society in which they live, firmly rejects the notion with the statement: " But we want to stress that it is true that the issue of Imams concerns mainly the Muslim community". With other words- the Muslims told the govenment to 'lay off' in 2001 and are saying the same thing in 2005, when they complain that they "were not consulted" about an Imam course planned for the Vrij University.

November 5, 2001

Imams: Conditions and Functions

1- Islamic University Rotterdam Project

Islamic countries have founded schools and institutes for training Imams and arranged rules for appointing Imams according to the spirit of Islam and the social realities of Muslims. Unfortunately, in the West, i.e., Europe, though the considerably large size of the Islamic communities, no Islamic organizations have been established to offer imam education and training as well as religious or legal rules for appointing them. The worse is that no concept about European imam has been developed through research. The European imam is the imam that would offer his services taking account of the socio-cultural conditions where he is working. The Islamic University Rotterdam is developing a research project that will shed light on all the issues that surround the concept of the imam in the European context as well as the principles for appointing them.

2- Becoming an imam

Who can become an imam in Islamic Law?

The Prophet Muhammad says: 'Let your imams be the best among you for they are your representatives between you and your Lord.' Islamic scholars have discussed this issue and explained different views. Some scholars say that the best reader of the Qur'an must be imam among Muslims. Some scholars say that the best knowledgeable man should be chosen as imam. Imams should be more knowledgeable, upright, and God-fearing men. It is not permitted in Islam for an immoral or ignorant man to lead people in prayer. Women can also be imam but for women only.

To complete these religious conditions, imams need to be trained. These training centers should be special schools or Islamic Theological Faculties.

We should know two principles about this question.

In Islam, congregational prayer may be held with only two persons. So the compulsory condition for imam is to have the ability of reciting from the Qur'an, F‚tiha and some more verses correctly. Then if you are a member of a group and you all wish to perform the prayer, you must perform it together. The imam should be the one among you who recites the Qur'an best and if you are all equal in this respect then the imam should be the one who is most learned and most versed in the traditions of the Messenger. Should you all be equal in these respects then the oldest of you shall be appointed.

In the mosques, the imams should be chosen by those who perform the prayer and generally by the Muslim community. But they must be chosen with care. How can they be chosen among Muslims?
1. Candidates of imam must recite the Qur'an correctly.
2. They must be best knowledgeable members of Muslim society. They should have enough knowledge about basics of Islam.
3. The oldest and experienced ones must been preferred.

3- Functions of the imam

The imam can serve the Muslim community in many different ways. Significant among these are:
1. He can lead Muslims in their prayers.
2. He can give some fatwas and serve as a reference person in guiding Muslims in terms of Islamic affairs.
3. He can also help Muslims in dealing with their necessities such as issuing marriage contract, or teaching the holy book, the Qur'an in the mosque or religious schools.
4. In cases of conflict, he can function as a bridge between Muslims themselves and/or Muslims and non-Muslims.

4- Last word

This is just a preliminary undeveloped version of the conditions and functions of the imam. A more elaborate version would be available later. But we want to stress that it is true the issue of the imam concerns mainly the Muslim community. However, in training imams to serve the Muslim communities living outside the Muslim world a number of conditions should be taken into account. Interesting among these is the new context of migration as well as its inherent socio-cultural conditions.

In Islamic countries, governments and groups developed procedures and materials to train imams keeping in mind their status and tasks in society. They can graduate from specific schools and institutes and hold a diploma. The procedures, material and imam education are elaborated, taking account of the majority Muslims position. With globalization process, the task of the imam should even be wider and so are his duties. The tasks and functions of the imam outside the Muslim world should be redefined according to the spirit of the migration contexts.


dinsdag 22 februari 2005 uur.
Al Fourkaan-moskee overweegt stappen tegen Verdonk

EINDHOVEN - De Al Fourkaan-moskee in Eindhoven overweegt juridische stappen tegen minister Verdonk (Vreemdelingenzaken). De bewindsvrouw maakte dinsdag bekend de drie imams van de Eindhovense moskee uit te zetten. 'De verwijten kloppen niet. We zijn geen terroristisch netwerk, maar een religieuze instelling', aldus woordvoerder A. Nejjar.

'Als je iemand beschuldigt, moet daar gedegen onderzoek aan vooraf gaan. Dat is in dit geval niet gebeurd. Bovendien heeft Verdonk zich gebaseerd op achterhaalde informatie, want een van de drie imams is alleen maar invaller', aldus Nejjar. De drie zijn afkomstig uit BosniŽ, Kenia en Egypte.

Met de uitzetting van de drie imams van de Eindhovense Al Fourkaan moskee zitten de gelovigen zonder voorganger. Twee van de drie zijn in vaste dienst, een van hen is invaller.

Volgens een oud-imam, die zijn naam niet bekend wil maken en vrijwilligerswerk doet, is het moskeebestuur 'volkomen verrast' door de maatregel van minister Verdonk (Vreemdelingenzaken). 'We zijn benieuwd naar de bewijzen', aldus de man.

Nejjar: 'Hier heerst nu een gespannen sfeer. We waren bezig ons imago op te poetsen met open dagen en door scholieren uit te nodigen. Dat alles is nu doorkruist door Verdonk.' Ook heeft het bestuur al een paar keer de ministers Remkes (Binnenlandse Zaken) en Verdonk uitgenodigd om eens langs te komen, maar daar hebben de bewindslieden volgens de oud-imam tot nu toe geen gehoor gaan gegeven.

Een dienst in de Al Fourkaan moskee trekt gemiddeld achthonderd mensen. 'Die zitten nu zonder voorganger. Een moskee zonder imam is als een kerk zonder priester of dominee', aldus de oud-medewerker.

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